New Challenge: Bollywood
This month's challenge offers songs, films, and tropes from Bollywood, the world's largest film industry based out of India, as prompts for fanworks.
Founded in 2005, the Silmarillion Writers' Guild exists for discussions of and creative fanworks based on J.R.R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion and related texts. We are a positive-focused and open-minded space that welcomes fans from all over the world and with all levels of experience with Tolkien's works. Whether you are picking up Tolkien's books for the first time or have been a fan for decades, we welcome you to join us!
New Challenge: Bollywood
This month's challenge offers songs, films, and tropes from Bollywood, the world's largest film industry based out of India, as prompts for fanworks.
Cultus Dispatches: Fandom Chocolate … or Authors Love Comments
Tolkien Fanfiction Survey data provides insight into how comments benefit authors and which authors are most impacted by a lack of comments, with a digression on authors' perspectives one-click feedback like kudos.
A Sense of History: Passing Ships
As Tolkien's characters in various texts gaze out to the sea, what do they see? What is brought by the ships coming out of the West?
Beta-Reader List Now Available
The beta-reader list and profiles have been moved into our new system and are available again.
[Series] The Light and the Sea (Steampunk Númenor) by AdmirableMonster
Largely focused on Númenor, its fall, and the aftermath, as seen from the perspective of two Mannish scientists, bit players in some ways, but who nonetheless cast their shadows across the history of Middle Earth.
[Writing] Reflections by AdmirableMonster
A story of three friends in Númenor, one of whom attracts the attention of the High Priest. What does friendship mean in the shadow of the Black Temple?
[Writing] No Time Have I by Flora-lass
A Silmarillion acrostic.
[Writing] An exercise in music... And patience by Aprilertuile
Makalaurë was sitting at the harp in his music room. He was holding a dark blindfold in his hands and was looking at it with much scepticism.
[Writing] I called it Fate that I should fail by AdmirableMonster
Nimruzimir, a natural philosopher recently out of his apprenticeship, hardly considers himself very important to anyone, least of all his colleagues. When his strange, prophetic fits bring him to the attention of the High Priest, however, he may find that his existence is less superfluous than…
[Writing] All of you by chrissystriped
Elrond and Celebrían celebrate their anniversary with their family.
[Writing] Lament for the Singer by daughterofshadows
A short thing about Maglor, death and grieving.
Bollywood
Prompts this month are films, songs, and tropes from India's dazzling film industry, Bollywood. Read more ...
Another Place in Time
Move beyond the places and times of familiar events to consider what was going on elsewhere in Arda at the same time as a major event covered in The Silmarillion. How--if at all--did the event impact what was transpiring elsewhere at the same time? Read more ...
Fandom Chocolate … or Authors Love Comments by Dawn Walls-Thumma
[]Tolkien Fanfiction Survey data shows that authors view comments as driving their motivation to create fanfiction. However, perception of comments by authors is part of a larger shift in fandom around how and how often fans interact with each other.
Passing Ships by Simon J. Cook
[]The arrival and departure of ships across the Great Sea carries mythic significance for the peoples of Middle-earth. The image of ships crossing out of and back into a mysterious West appears as well in Beowulf and is alluded to in Tolkien's tower analogy in his lecture "Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics," where the tower allows those who climb it to observe the passage of the ships.
Fanfiction and the Serious Business of Writer's Craft by Dawn Walls-Thumma
[]Tolkien Fanfiction Survey data shows that while most authors self-identify as taking their craft seriously, a growing subset of authors may be pushing that norm.
[Writing] Staging a Battle by StarSpray
[]He and Diamond were visiting, though Pippin had been disappearing every afternoon, and taking Frodo and Elanor and most other lads and lasses in the neighborhood with him—though why they couldn’t use Pippin’s own pony, Sam couldn’t imagine.
[Writing] From whose bourn no traveller returns by losselen
[]So gathered they were to Bree, what lieutenants who could be spared, from their scattered watches west and east, for their chieftain had returned from his long sojourn in lands godless and mountains strange.
Aragorn returns from the South to tells his tales. Halbarad listens.
[Writing] Sand Sorcery by StarSpray
[]It is well known that Psamathos does not leave his cove. He does not like to get his feet wet, and prefers to spend his days dozing under the sun.
Fellowship of the Fics: Summer Stories 2024
Fellowship of the Fics offers four weeks of summer-themed prompts during the month of July.
July challenge at tolkienshortfanworks posted
The tolkienshortfanworks challenge for July has been posted to the Dreamwidth community. The thematic challenge is: original character or unnamed canon character; the formal challenge: fixed length of multiple of 50 words. New participants welcome.
July 2024 Call for Papers and Proposals
Conferences and publications that have open calls for papers and proposals in July 2024.
Teitho June/July Challenge: Mentor
The June/July prompt for the Teitho challenge is "mentor" and invites fanworks about this relationship in Tolkien's works.
Scribbles & Drabbles 2024
A chill Tolkien event, where artists make art, and authors write little stories in response. Begins in June and ends in November.
I wish I was that tall! If height is an indicator of leadership and nobility my moniker is well earned indeed. lol
Your ability to pull off something this interesting and educational so quickly with all the citations and such is impressive. I laughed out loud at the image of the Elves riding these huge horses and having tiny little pin heads. Also, the Dwarves must have been in the neighborhood of five foot nine!
"Tall" is such a vague term where there's nothing to really compare it to.
Now I'm going to bait you by saying I'm going to write a story where Turgon is so tall he can pat Maedhros and Fingon on the head like three year olds.
Don't you dare, you wicked person! You know I have no sense of humor when it comes to them.
OMG! Thanks so much for your patience! I cannot even look at that thing right now. I am not a naturally fast writer. I need time. I never understand people you dash off thousands of words a day regularly.
Ha, I see I'm not the only one squeaking in at the deadline with an essay! (Or the only one somewhat skeptical about the extreme heights!) I got the giggles at the image of the tall elves having to crouch down to talk to Men and dwarves, and their feet dragging on the ground as they ride on a horse that looks almost comically small compared to them. :)
Everything I do ends up one way or another pushing the deadline! Thanks for reading. I am glad to hear that I am not the only skeptical one about height question. I wish I could draw cartoons. I was tempted to try for this one.
Enjoyed your (as usual) well-written and considered essay. I agree with Grundy -- I snickered at your image of elves riding massive Clydesdale type beasts with their feet a draggin'. lol. and agree that no way do I want to contemplate 8' elves or Numenoreans for that matter. The subject of who is the tallest and actually putting characters on a graph line (which I've seen done) is another one of those fandom things i can't get into. As you say, I figure that tall is a standard Tolkien marker, his go-to in describing a noble, worthy being -- both men and women -- putting his characters in the realm of mythology where all heroes are noble, pure, and yes, altitude-gifted.
Thanks for reading, Elfscribe. I am glad it entertained you. I do recall some art which had all of the major character lined up with heights noted. I tried to find it yesterday and couldn't.
I think you are right that the Silmarillion and other early works are written in a more epic mode in the sense of indicating character by dropping epithets instead of developing through more modern methods of dialog and action. Perhaps me having had decades of knowing only LotR it becomes a stumbling block because I entered into the reading of the material in the HoMe with different expectations. I can handle it well enough in the Iliad or Gilgamesh.
I know some fans actually relish the idea of Elves as creatures from the uncanny valley (or "eldritch horrors" as they would say), but like you, I prefer them more human. Which includes height and proportions! Mind you, I'm one of those smallish people who always feel vaguely resentful of very tall people (-> my father's side of the family, for example), so of course my beloved Elves mustn't be even taller than that. ;)
I remember getting into fandom fights because I felt that Maedhros should be the tallest - he's called the Tall (TM), and Turgon isn't, right! - and that obscure quote gives me both satisfaction (it really is very obscure, you can barely find it unless you really want to) and regret (it is an actual quote...)
My excuse is that we all know there are different narrators, and naturally Pengolodh would say that Turgon is the tallest! Safe Thingol. :P
Anyway, this essay speaks to me a lot. I, too, draw the line somewhere around 7 feet. I suppose it's possible that due to ~Elven magic~ the proportions of an even taller Elf (or Númenórean, even) might not actually get stretched, but would still be pleasing to the (human) eye... but I prefer to keep Elven magic out of my inner vision. XD Thank you for this essay! As a vaguely amusing end note, I love that you brought up Liam Neeson as an example for a very tall (but not that tall) human, since he used to be my faceclaim for Elendil (also the Tall (TM)) for a long time. And now, I stop rambling!
Oh, thanks so much for reading! And for commenting!
I choked on my coffee when I read:
"...we all know there are different narrators, and naturally Pengolodh would say that Turgon is the tallest!"
Oh. Yes! And I tend to forget the following:
I know some fans actually relish the idea of Elves as creatures from the uncanny valley (or "eldritch horrors" as they would say)
Peter Jackson verges on that for any Elf without a speaking part.
I love that you brought up Liam Neeson as an example for a very tall (but not that tall) human, since he used to be my face-claim for Elendil (also the Tall (TM)) for a long time.
He would have been perfect for Elendil!
Short grandparents and very tall grandchildren was a U.S. phenomenon when I was growing up. Someone did a study a few decades ago, which I unsuccessfully searched for and did not find, that showed dramatic increases in height among second and third-generation Japanese Americans. Their conclusion was some of this was caused by the U.S. practice of giving kids milk as a beverage at every meal and in between meals well into their teenage years. (I think that has declined a bit now--but the replacements are gross--highly processed fruit beverages and soda and more junk-food snacks. Now kids are getting fatter.)
I think the trick for me of getting these things right is for the author not to throw in too much weirdness least the reader gets overwhelmed and but still enough not to lose the magic and wonder of fantasy. I found people in the early-2000s LotR fandom who did not like it when I introduced telepathic communication (Ósanwe-kenta) into a novel I was writing. They thought I made it up. So I had to insert extensive references in a footnote in an Eomer/Lothiriel romance to get them to stop bothering me.
There was a whole segment of LotR writers for a while who preferred fanfiction with an absolute minimum of fantasy elements--focused on Men and Hobbits, and light on Elves or any history reaching before the Third Age and the fewer references to fantasy elements the better. That always annoyed the hell out of me. My early character bios hammer away at the importance of The Silmarillion to Tolkien! LotR was the afterthought for him! (Although I do not deny some of the best writing might be in LotR--but writing for immediate publication does cause one to stretch.)
Sorry for writing too much. Thank you again for your comments!
It was fun to get height thing off my chest in a context where I did not have to reasonable as a quasi-representative of the SWG (even though the bios are all signed, I still feel the need to keep control of my quirkiest personal opinions and preferences). In this essay I just let my weirdness flow freely!
I agree, Oshun!
My impression, too, is that when Tolkien is in mythological mode he uses "tall" as an epithet that suggests the outer equivalent of some kind of inner quality, although I don't find it easy to easy to pin down what that inner quality is. Sometimes it seems to be more about leadership, sometimes more about knowledge? I think you are right that it probably has partly to do with not wanting his fairies to be little and pretty and Victorian.
That idea doesn't transfer easily into a more realistic mode, does it? Even though Tolkien tries.
I think I saw you, somewhere, trying to track down an artist's height chart in this context. Here is one by Houkakyou:
https://www.deviantart.com/houkakyou/art/LotR-S-Silmarillion-Height-Chart-546857444
Oh, you found a height chart! Yay! Thank you so much. Whenever I see one I find them terribly entertaining, but also do not find they satisfy me in terms of characterization.
It does transfer more into a more realistic model and it does not satisfy my personal story-verse in which I try to write that way. Real emotional, real struggles, epic tragedy, which actually real-world history is like that. Great people historically were not without out their flaws and yet still could be amazing (will being violent, crazy, or terribly wrong by today's standards). Edward IV (the terrific military genius of the War of the Roses) was 6 feet 4 inches, while his brother Richard III is said from his bones to be about 5 feet 6 inches--contemporary accounts describe him as short but nice looking (not the hump-backed monster). So I enjoy thinking about physical descriptions. I like to weave characterization from a starting place of giving the reader a vivid visual image. Tolkien often does also, but them sometimes veers off by contradicting himself or going too far. (Combination of literary tropes and in-world ever-shifting narrators over time. Those narrators not always being first-hand or even same historical period or place.)
I've imagined Gil-galad and Elendil has both very tall. Elendil being noticeably taller. That is far as my puny imagination can take me. But still can visualize Fingon holding Maedhros on the back of Thorondor. So I can ditch realism when it suits me!!
Thanks so much for reading and finding the drawing.
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