An Examination of Thingol as King by Grundy

This is an impressive and coherent narrative of the territories and the events surrounded the time that Thingol ruled in Doriath in particular. I like the way you've colored the maps--a big deal for me with my vision issues! Thanks!

I am unable to discuss a lot of the points you make on one read only. A few things leap out at me that I would like to raise. It will be a big job to get all of my ducks lined up in order to start raising issues or asking questions.

This is a very useful reference to have, for its organization of a wealth of details and complicated chronology. It can be very difficult to try to hop into the texts and pull out the bit and pieces one needs.

I do have some bones to pick (of course, I do!). I will have to come back sooner rather than later with those. As you said to me recently--remind me if I forget!

Meanwhile, congratulations on a lovely piece of work and one which I do believe will be a resource for me and many others.

I'm back! Terrific essay, I couldn't stop thinking about it.

First, these are friendly points. It is a credit to your essay that I want to engage and split a few hairs with you over some conclusions. One point I would raise is that while Thingol does indeed seek to protect those of his people included within the Girdle of Melian, he often does so to the disadvantage of those outside of it. As a reader, I find it an unattractive form of isolationism. For example, he is perfectly willing to use the Other (be it Dwarf, Nandor, those cursed Noldor, or the Edain) as the first line of defense against the enemy. So it is not only the problematic Noldor--by his judgment untrustworthy kinslayers--that he is willing to place as a living barrier between the bad world outside and those sheltering within the bounds of the Girdle of Melian. A couple of examples:

1) Denethor and the Nandor suffered terrible losses as Thingol's cannon fodder in Thingol's one and only battle against the forces of Morgoth fought shortly before the Noldor arrive:

But the victory of the Elves was dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. ["Of the Sindar"]

2) Thingol’s response when he first heard of the coming of Men from the east was that he wanted nothing at all to do with them! But later when Finrod explained the hardship of the people of Haleth Thingol reluctantly agreed to allow her people to settle in land which he claimed but outside of the Girdle of Melian.

Now Brethil was claimed as part of his realm by King Thingol, though it was not within the Girdle of Melian, and he would have denied it to Haleth; but Felagund, who had the friendship of Thingol, hearing of all that had befallen the People of Haleth, obtained this grace for her: that she should dwell free in Brethil, upon the condition only that her people should guard the Crossings of Teiglin against all enemies of the Eldar, and allow no Orcs to enter their woods. To this Haleth answered: ‘Where are Haldad my father, and Haldar my brother? If the King of Doriath fears a friendship between Haleth and those have devoured her kin, then the thoughts of the Eldar are strange to Men.’

The point I am trying to make in too many words was that Thingol was no nature’s nobleman! He sheltered his own and kept others outside of his enchanted circle, but was not unwilling to use them.

Another nitpicky point, based upon logical assumptions (too lazy to do more). I would assert that the ban of Quenya was not entirely successful. We know there were a lot of Sindar living outside of the Girdle of Melian and that the Noldor encountered Sindar around Lake Mithrim and entered into relationships with them. Sindar followed Turgon to Nevrast and from there to Gondolin. Every Noldorin community more likely than not included Sindar. If that had not been the case, the ban on the use of Quenya would have been completely toothless.  

But I suspect the hooked-on-knowledge Noldor were already busy learning these peoples’ dialects of Sindar before Thingol declared Sindar-only! Nevertheless, the ban was spotty in its enforcement also, because we know people continued to speak it. At Unnumbered Tears, Fingon shouts: “‘Utúlie’n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie’n aurë! The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!’” And was understood: “all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered crying: ‘Auta i lómë! The night is passing!’” Later in the day, “each time that he slew Húrin cried: ‘Aurë entuluva! Day shall come again!’ Seventy times he uttered that cry.”

Thingol did not succeed in wiping out the language. We know it survived into Third Age Gondor as a scholarly language (Elf-Latin). Aragorn uses it at his coronation: "Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!" "Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world." One can easily imagine that the ever beloved scholar-warrior-hero of LotR Faramir enjoyed reading history and poetry in Quenya. I bet the libraries of Rivendell and Minas Tirith were filled with books in Quenya.

I do not disagree that Thingol must have been a justifiably respected leader and largely a good one. Until the Silmaril caught his eye! But he should have been less xenophobia and nicer to Dwarves and Men. He should have taken his wife’s advice more. Like most major figures in The Silmarillion he is a tragic figure more than an evil or stupid one and like most Silm characters is flawed.

Thanks again for sharing such a rich collection of material and making so much scattered information readily available.

A careful reading that makes very good points! It is too easy to overlook Thingol's strengths in the light of his unfortunate dealings with the Silmaril.

After all, he is the leader who was beloved enough by his followers that many of them stayed behind for his sake in Beleriand, an unknown country, for an indefinite period; otherwise there would be no Sindar.

As you say, he also does get on well with the Dwarves at first (apart from that issue of the Petty Dwarves, which isn't linked to him personally). I had forgotten that the Dwarves enter the fight, during the battle in which Denethor falls, until a fic by Brooke reminded me.

I agree with Oshun that the language ban probably worked as well as it did, because the Noldor were already largely using Sindarin, especially in communicating with Sindar and perhaps even amongst themselves (there are hints of this in the description of the Mereth Aderthad, I think). But that Thingol comes up with such an idea does seem to show how he has a tendency to think of himself as the king of the Sindar or even of Doriath only rather than the somewhat wider perspective we might expect from someone who used to be Elwe.

Those are very interesting considerations!

I think, in less populated areas, especially when there weren't clear geographical features, there would not necessarily be clear-cut borders between territories and people might be thinking more in terms of personal loyalties.

I kind of wonder who, out of the entire Silm, is not a tragic figure...

Thingol, Thingol. I think he is a victim of simply being the best when no one, except his people, acknowledged that. Besides, there is no other High King of the Sindar in Beleriand, not even Dior, who technically was one, but hey...

Very, very good job! I'm a Thingol fan with the bones and am always glad when someone wants to explain his ways.

Greatly done!

OMG! I am back! Sorry I did not respond sooner to your excellent rebuttal.

Great arguments. I concede the debate, but subjectively am not giving up many of my deeply held prejudices (seriously! I am a hot mess of a Noldor-lover)! Still, I think he shot himself in the foot (if not worse) for not sending help to Unnumbered Tears.

One point on the language-ban again to reiterate where I am coming from and not necessarily to change your mind. If one considers it a victory, I still see it as a somewhat of an empty one. The Noldor were quick to learn Sindarin and as I interpret the texts renamed themselves with Sindarin out of linguistic fastidiousness and not any ruling by Thingol. I drew this conclusion (perhaps mistakenly, from The Shibboleth):

The changes from the Quenya names of the Noldor to Sindarin forms when they settled in Beleriand in Middle-earth were, on the other hand, artificial and deliberate. They were made by the Noldor themselves. This was done because of the sensitiveness of the Eldar to languages and their styles. They felt it absurd and distasteful to call living persons who spoke Sindarin in daily life by names in quite a different linguistic mode. The Noldor of course fully understood the style and mode of Sindarin, though their learning of this difficult language was swift.

It is more usual for a conquered/invaded people to continue to speak their own language (as in the case of Anglo-Saxon continuing to be the dominant language even during the 300 years or so when the invaders/new privileged classes continued to use Anglo-Norman/Anglo-French). In the end the English language persisted and replaced French.  In other words, Sindarin was the language which would have persisted with or without any ban.

Using one's own people as cannon fodder is not that uncommon and, I might note, not with malicious intent, but I would say criminal carelessness and/or bad planning. I read a very good book about the effect of WWI on Tolkien’s writing—John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War. I would recommend for an insight into the trauma for Tolkien of loss of lives of his generation, particularly in the Battle of the Somme. He was to lose his intimate friends and collaborators—they did not go to war out of patriotic fervor, but because young men of his age joined up or were subject to scorn. His country lost a significant proportion of a generation. Tolkien personally was left alone. He wrote in a letter to his son later in life: “By 1918 all but one of my close friends were dead.” This casualty rate resulted from blunder after blunder: “victory but at what cost” has never been a more fitting description. I cannot but believe that Tolkien’s accounts of the First War of Beleriand, the initial charge in the Unnumbered Tears, and the loss of lives in the Battle of Dagorlad, and the Dead Marshes in LotR. The horrors of the Battle of the Somme formed a part of his psyche that permeates his work. When he writes of battles they often echo elements of that formative period of his life; he does not imply those were acceptable losses or based upon reasonable expectations. They and the result was horror. I place blame on Thingol and his reliance upon Denethor’s forces the same way I blame the civilian and military leaders for the blunders in the Somme and resulting loss of lives (not to mention it was a squabble among imperialists over a larger piece of the pie, but that is whole other discussion and not part of the history of Middle-earth!). I am a far more political person than Tolkien so no doubt I judge Thingol more harshly. I can’t just say, OK, dude, you did the best with what you had. The lesson Thingol drew from the experience was hunker down and save the few you can.

Anyway, back to my initial response—great references, well-argued, and the essay will be a useful tool for me.