Comments on Orcling

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I just read this on LJ, but I'll review it here, too.

As I said, I love these glimpses into your 'verse, of Sauron and young Mél.  I become conflicted about your Sauron precisely because of this kind of passage:

'Father told her to kill it. She knew what he wanted her to do, to probe into the tiny creature's body and recite the Words of Power with him, to set in motion a spell that would make the moth's life-giving pathways run hot, just enough to kill it, but not to set it aflame.

 She had refused to do it, and he reached within her and pushed, impatient with her. She pushed back and tossed him out of her head. His response was to grab her arm so hard that it hurt, and he snarled:

 I am your father! I will not tolerate such impertinence!

She jerked away from him to run down the trail where she tripped on a stone and fell, scraping her knees. He was at her side in an instant.

I am sorry, I am so sorry, he had said, repeating his words, just as she did with the freed moth. I did not mean to lose my temper.'


The wolf shows for a moment, though I have no doubt that he loves his daughter. 

And Mél does not want him to turn 'everything into a lesson'  That's understandable, and nevertheless she has his (or the Noldorin - or both) curiosity because even though she wants to be alone, she isn't aimless, she wants to look for fossils. I love your Mél, both younger and older versions, and this time in Sauron's history, even if I am conflicted d;-)

 

 

Thanks so much, Spiced, for the most welcome comments!  This fic, which has been bouncing around in my brain for a while, but in amorphous form, let me have another look at Mél (and continue to develop her character) and to examine Aulendil a bit more (not that the Dark Muse hasn't had more than his fair share of attention from me).  

'm glad to hear about your conflicting feelings — well, insofar as Sauron as I write him is concerned. ;^)  He is not a Nice Guy™ although he has his streaks of humanity.  I find it unfathomable that the Elves of Eregion or the Númenóreans would have listened to him if he had been a cardboard cutout villain, rubbing his hands together and cackling "Bwahaha!" all the while.   Making him a family man here, in addition to providing a means for distributing his "eldritch alleles" into the great inventors and thinkers (some rather mad themselves) in the alternative history of the Pandë!verse, provides a mechanism for emphasising that people who commit heinous acts nonetheless have characteristics we might call "good," even if that is uncomfortable for us to accept. Think Muammar Gaddafi playing with his grandchildren.

Anyway, it's both fun and challenging to keep him "in character" as a dad, i.e., overbearing, bossy, and very manipulative, and to examine how his child reacts to this...and also make the point that no matter how much a parent *ahem* might think (irrationally) their kid should be like him or her, that kid is very much his or her own person.

I really am impressed by how Mél deals with this situation, coming face to face with a creature of the enemy (even if a child) and on her own. Even though she gets rocks thrown at her, (and bitten, later) she manages to overcome her fear. So many times fear and hate result in violence, fight or flight, but Mél has enough compassion that she can't leave the orcling to die.

She handles it so well, and believably well, true to her character, maybe emulating what she has heard of Nelyafinwë, but I think even though young, she would have enough strength of character to do as she did even without taking him as an example.

I am really enjoying this, Pandë; it's a real treat this week to be able to get a chapter a day, and this is not a deviation from your 'verse, but part of it. This story is adding to it, whether or not it was prompted by a challenge, which is always a good thing.

Mél's a bit cocky, I think, but her curiosity, just as much as compassion, will win out.  

Thanks so much, Spiced, for following along and providing such welcome feedback!  Next chapter is up, one more to go, if I still have power tomorrow - hopefully, we will not lose power during the worst of the blizzard.

Thanks so much, Ellynn.  Glad to hear you like it.  I never know how these things will fly with readers.  

Mélamírë is about 10 to 12 years old, or the Elvish equivalent.  As typical, Tolkien changed his mind on Elven maturation, too.  But, yes, my thinking is that she's around 10 years (as in solar years).

Next chapter is up!

There are a lot of reasons to like this story. I especially like Mel. Secondly, I absolutely enjoy the complexity of her relationship with her father. The admiration and affection that she feels for her him and her niggling sense of almost completely suppressed doubt, which is separate and different from her sometimes cocky rebelliousness. I like how you paint like the subtle mixture of childishness and sophistication of a bright child—I recognize and identify with that both from my own childhood and as a parent and grandparent. There are times when Mel understands more than she realizes she does, but it will be a long time before she figures that out.

As usual with your stories it is beautifully written. I love the setting and the detail of it. The illustrations which accompany each chapter are worth every minute you might have spent tracking them down and adding them. I love the detail of the description of hunting the fossil and removing it from the rock. Also like how she was able to figure out how to move the other rock and free the trapped orcling.

Hmm. It is interesting to see that she feels compassion for the little monster. But, ouch, one is endanger of being bitten for that. Seems to see herself in the little orc. When she observes the orcling’s father, Mel definitely sees the similarities--the protectiveness and the determination to look after one’s young. I like this part compared to orc fics where one is expected to assume a total lack of any compassion or attachment.

The story exists quite well on its own. Of course, it shines as an extension of your personal canon. Sorry to be so general and vague. Better to comment when I am not feeling brilliant, I guess, than to keep diddling around and not commenting at all.

It is a splendid story. Does all the things a good story should do.

Oh, thanks so much for the lovely review, Oshun!  Very glad to hear that you're on board with the mix of "childishness and sophistication of a bright child."  Likewise, I recognize those combined characteristics, too.  It's kind of disconcerting - one minue a kid will say something that has the intellectual caiibre of an adult and the next, well, they're a kid.  I tried to capture that in Mél.  You're not being general or vague at all.  And many thanks not only for these comments, but also for your feedback that improved the story.  This fic likely will not be everyone's cup of tea, being so immersed in my own personal canon, but if a few folks like yourself enjoy it, that's gratifying to me!

What a wonderful final chapter, Pandë.

Then something strange occurred to her, a chilling thought like cold winter air that seeps around the cracks of a door. Father, a Fay like Thû, ran beneath her in the form of a huge wolf. Thû had been the Lord of Werewolves. A terrible question formed from that thought: had Father once served Thû, back in the time of legends?

She untangled the threads that threatened to weave themselves into an awful — and surely wrong — conclusion

This is the trouble with clever kids; she's too clever and imaginative for her father's peace of mind, or indeed her own, but of course she 'knows' he could not have served Thû.

she asked Father if Melian was a monster, and he answered emphatically that yes, many considered her to be so. The next time she visited Lord Celeborn, she asked him the same question: was Melian a monster? He seemed startled at first, but then became thoughtful and had responded, "Yes, I am afraid that some did see her as a monster — a beautiful monster, but a monster all the same."


I find this really fascinating, more so than the Maia just being considered like Elves but more powerful. This 'mistrust' of the Fay simply feels more realistic to me.

Still conflicted about Sauron, but not about Mél. She's a terrific character, and handled herself really well through that. Poor thing, wanting to tell some-one about the orcling, and ending up being allowed to only speak of her trilobite, even if it is an excellent specimen. 

 

Thanks so much for the lovely comments, Spiced, and for sticking it out to the bitter end.

"but of course she 'knows' he could not have served Thû."

Yep, because to think otherwise would be devastating for her.

The Maiar, as Tolkien wrote them, seemed to be a fascinating population of beings, and to me, they must have seemed "different" to both Elves and Men.  Like the Istari, who came to Middle-earth disguised as aging Men so they could move among the Children of Iluvatar more readily, I'm thinking my version of Sauron does something similar after the War of Wrath and "closets" himself.  Melian, on the other hand, seems to be known openly as a Maia from the very get-go.  It's wickedly amusing to think that some might consider her very uncanny, i.e., a beautiful monster.

I'm really glad to know you like Mél's character.  It is so dicey writing any kind of OFC in Tolkien fandom, let alone one with as loaded a background as she has, but that's what I looked upon as the challenge: can the character be written as interesting and relatable to readers while maintaining the "otherness" we see among certain denizens of Middle-earth?  For example, her disappointment at being told she can't tell her pals about the orcling and impress them!

Thanks again!

Thanks so much, Indy, and I am glad to hear you like Mél's character.  It's very risky, as you know, to write OFCs in this fandom, let alone one with such a loaded background, but I figure that's part of the challenge.  So if she "works" for readers, that's great, and I have done my job. :^)

Heh.  When I was doing a bit of research on fossil-hunting for trilobites, I was struck by the similarity of PJ's Elvish armor in the LotR (and now The Hobbit) movies and trilobites. It amuses me more than it should.  Maybe Celebrimbor had a good look at Mél's find, and maybe passed it around, giving rise to a new armor design. :^D

I suppose he wouldn't have risked that particular transformation for a lot of people! Considering how controlling a father he is in other ways, he's surprisingly forgiving after this dangerous escapade--but perhaps because he can identify with it to some extent?

Mel has learned more and other things than he wanted her to learn--but some of them don't fit in with her life as it is at all, so it's no wonder she doesn't really know what to do with them for now.

Thanks muchly for the comments, Himring!

"Considering how controlling a father he is in other ways, he's surprisingly forgiving after this dangerous escapade--but perhaps because he can identify with it to some extent?"

That's a good point, and quite interesting to know from your perspective as a reader.  As the writer, I'm projecting the experience of being a parent, and, er, one that has a tendency to be controlling (maybe I'm exorcising my own demons through Sauron):  one is so relieved that the kid is safe and relatively unscathed that it isn't even a matter of forgiveness.  Just an overwhelming sense of relief that your contribution to the gene pool hasn't been cut short. ;^)  But also, as the writer, perhaps I'm missing something here?  

I've always thought that particular explanation of the orcs was a cop-out as well. You can see why he was driven to it, mind you. Viewed in a certain light, that game Legolas and Gimli play at Helm's Deep is quite an embarrassment for a Catholic writer!

It's pretty much the explanation he uses for the trolls all along, I guess, though--but that feels different somehow.

To be fair, Tolkien's writings after the "orcs as beasts" conjecture went back to "orcs from Men and Elves" idea, one that I find more palatable.  But I guess part of the impetus for this out-on-a-limb fic is my unrelenting emphasis on humanism: if a being is in human form, whether Maia, elf, orc, etc., there are always distinctive aspects of humanity (the good and the bad) present. 

Here's an interesting tidbit from Tolkien on trolls (HoMe X):  "The Elves would have classed the creatures called 'trolls' (in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings) as Orcs —   in character and  origin — but they were larger and slower.  It would seem evident that they were corruptions of primitive human types." [emphasis Pandë]             

I somehow missed this so far - I saw only the snippet you posted on LJ earlier. It was lovely. I really, really like the idea of Melian as monster like. She has always reminded me of la belle dame sans merci, only apparently in a better mood. 

The idea of Sauron enthusiastically licking someone's face and wagging his tail was hilarious. I wonder if, when she changes into a wolf physically, he cannot help behaving like a real wolf a little? Are the minds of the Ainur in your 'verse affected by what kind of brain they have at that particular moment? 

The orcs were very well done, too. Convincing enough as a scary crowd that could simply be seen as a mass of screeching evil by Elves by the end, obviously humanoid as individuals. I especially liked Stralûb waving when they departed. It provided a nice contrast; scary crowd/individual personality. 

Yeah, I'm pretty ambivalent about SSPing.  Sometimes I do it, but largely, I hope that a) whatever I have written will speak for itself; or b) if folks really like whatever I have written, they'll pass it along.  At any rate, I'm thrilled that you liked it!

"She has always reminded me of la belle dame sans merci, only apparently in a better mood."

Ha!  Yes, exactly.

"The idea of Sauron enthusiastically licking someone's face and wagging his tail was hilarious."

I must admit (even though it is gauche to laugh at one's own humor), that it amused me, too.

"Are the minds of the Ainur in your 'verse affected by what kind of brain they have at that particular moment?"

YES!  Great question, thanks!  Shape-changing in the Pandë!verse has some weird biological basis (it's a mystery to me, and the Dark Muse demurs when I ask for a scientific explanation), and indeed, a kind of imprinting occurs, especially among the Maiar, less so for the Valar (who have been removed from their original organic form for eons).  There's a reference to this in How the East Was Won when Mairon is hunting an auroch bull with the tribe of Easterlings he has encountered: "Amidst the male stench of the bull, Mairon smelled fear and forced back the lupine growl that threatened to emerge from his throat."

Writing orcs made me very nervous.  There are some excellent orc-writers out there (The Lauderdale among them), so delving into orcdom is intimidating.  That said, I now have a plot bunny sequel to Orcling, told from Stralûb's and her parents' POV (I think it's apparent that her father is the chieftain of the Bear Clan) rattling around my head.  If I could keep it short, maybe, just maybe...Then there's an idea for a series of ficlets about Culinen, Mél's mom, who is a very learnéd woman in her own right (sort of like the surgeon-naturalists of the 19th century).  OK, I'll shut up now, other than to say...

THANK YOU! Your comments are very much appreciated. :^)

 

Mel had a cool adventure! What especially stands out is Mel coming to understand that orcs are more like people than anyone is willing to admit. "It's best not to think of them as people." That's kind of chilling when you think about it.

Of course I love the spell weaving and shape-shifting which is always a personal favorite. The big werewolf is awesome and it would have been interesing to see him take on the bear. Yes, I know it wouldn't have worked in the context but the idea is exciting.

I also like that the orc girl and Mel both contributed to their survivial with Mel rustling up the food and the orc girl providing the fire. Mel needs to add some flint to her pack. The description of the fossil hunt and fossil is great too. I'm glad Mel ended up with a souvenir of her adventure even if she's denied the great campfire story.

Hey, thanks for reading and for the most welcome comments, IgBee!  Orcs seemed to present something of a moral dilemma for Tolkien himself, who vacillated as to their origins and their very nature.  He seemed uncomfortable with the idea that they might have souls.  Now me, I'm a diehard humanist and reductionist, so it's impossible for me to look at the orcs and think that they are not human.  Pandë!verse Sauron is equally as aware of their origins, but as typical, he detaches himself so that he can justify his exploitation and cruelty toward his orcish minions.  We've seen the same kind of terrible rationalizations in our primary world, cf. the slave trade.

Glad you picked up on how both girls' contributed to their survival - that was intentional on my part.  Altruism is a fundamental trait of human beings and is thought to be due to evolutionary selection, so for human evolution in the Pandë!verse, which, up until the interference of the Ainur, had been moving along swimmingly in a Darwinian direction, sees those fundamental characteristics of altruism retained, especially within a tribe (orcs, Men, Elves, Hobbits...) 

Oh, good lord, that was a lot of pretentious bloviating.  Anyway, thanks again, IgBee!

Heh.  A bear and Wolf!Sauron confrontation would have been epic! :^D

 

Mairon has a daughter?! WOW! That is really inconceivable! He didn't really think of her in The Apprentice, though, and at the point I'm at in The Elendilmir, Samaril never thinks of her as Mairon's daughter either. It was implied that Mairon had a family, but I didn't realize that he actually did until reading this! Does Mairon actually feel anything for Mélamírë?

Hi, Yuhamara!  Thanks *very* much for reading Orcling and commenting.  My apologies for the delayed response.

WOW! That is really inconceivable!


Heh. Inconceivable. I expect there are quite a few folks who would strongly agree with you.   But she was conceived the old-fashioned way. :^D 

When I wrote Trinity, I introduced the notion that the "Line of Lúthien" was not the only Maiarin bloodline running through mortals (via Aragorn and Arwen), but that there was another in parallel passed along those whose ideas and inventions Tolkien cautioned against or even abhorred.  So, I needed a mechanism for that.  Hence, Mélamírë became the foremother of J. Robert Oppenheimer (among others) in the alternative history of the Pandë!verse. 

However, at the time I was writing the earlier stories (The Apprentice, The Elendilmir), there was tremendous prejudice against OFCs in Tolkien fandom (although said prejudice has not entirely disappeared, it seems somewhat less virulent).  So, I wanted to gradually set the stage for Mél's existence (the allusions to family in The Apprentice) then introduce her as a character who stood on her own merits, e.g., her appearances in The Elendilmir and Risk Assessment, without any clear familial connections.  I received quite favorable feedback on Mél as her own character.  As The Elendilmir progressed, I started dropping clues (or "bread crumbs") that allowed the readers to deduce her familial connections, and it eventually becomes clear in The Elendilmir just who her family is.  If a reader picks up the story of the Pandë!verse starting at Orcling, there's none of this build-up or the discovery of those "bread crumbs."  You're kind of slapped in the face with it. ;^)

As to how Mairon feels about Mél, it's complex. Check out <a href="http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=2176&chapter=1">Winter's Drums</a> and <a href="http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=1785">The Writhen Pool</a>, Chapter 8 for more insight (I hope!) into this. 

When I first jumped into Tolkien fanfic in 2007, I wrote (and still write) from the perspective of a humanist.  I felt like Sauron's evil was often held at arm's length as a detached otherworldly kind of evil.  So, my version of Sauron is  often much more strongly humanized than others' interpretations. This is a commentary on our nature as human beings, and my take that Evil and Good do not come from external, supernatural (or paranormal) forces, but instead, are essential components of *us* as human beings.

In my 'verse with its imaginary history as well as some physical laws not quite the same as our primary universe, Sauron has extraordinary abilities and powers, e.g., manipulation of materials at the molecular level, the use of Valarin to affect the fabric of matter, which would make him (and the other Ainur, Valar and Maiar both) virtually god-like,  but due to his "humanoid" origins (Light Over the Mountain) and his inhabitation of human forms of Middle-earth (at various times that of Mortal Men or as a Noldo in his Aulendil/Annatar guise), those human emotions, motives, and conflicts are also integral to him.  Lord Acton famously said, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  Sauron's humanity (and all the flaws that come with that) coupled with his great power make for a devastating combination.

Whew!  That was pretty long-winded!  Thanks for indulging me! :^)

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/power_corrupts.html

I absolutely loved this fic the first time I read (well, devoured, along with all the rest of your fics I devoured) it and it's such a delight coming back to it again now.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!  I enjoyed writing this little adventure story.  I have it in mind to write a short story from Stralûb's perspective after she and her clan left Mélamírë and her dad.  The orc shaman apparently recognized that was not an ordinary wolf, which makes me think this discovery might cause a stir among the tribes in the Misty Mountains. Stay tuned! :^)