Challenges: 30-Day Character Study by oshun

I have to admit that I was surprised by your choice--never disappointed! I'm always interested to hear what you learn/think about any character in Tolkien.

I haven't started the new B&L yet. In fact, I just put it up on my Tolkien shelf while giving the desk in my study a much-needed cleaning in preparation for doing some research this weekend. I had just returned from the library and thought that maybe I should have skipped that errand and read B&L ... but frankly, yes, it is one of the less-intriguing stories for me too in the legendarium. I think it's too starkly good-vs-evil: one of the things I love most about the Silm being the moral/implied psychological complexity of the characters (as you know!)

I am fortunate in being eagle-eyed somehow out of a myopic family ... and I know how fortunate I am. I share your disappointment that the Kindle version didn't include the illustrations. I detest that my genetic luck gives me access to content barred from others.

Hopping all over the place like a frog on caffeine ... the potential conflict between Daeron and Luthien is an interesting possibility. I don't know why I always read it (or assumed it) as Luthien oblivious and Daeron suffering in silence. Bringing out that tension could add some conflict and complexity to a story that really needs it to work for me. (I love "the grumpy friend-zoned guy." OMG.)

I'd never thought much about Luthien's lack of a social circle in the texts. Tolkien does take pains to establish friendships for most of his Silm characters, possibly hinting at the value he saw in his own friendships. So Luthien was either a serious introvert and really didn't care, or she did have circles of girlfriends and guyfriends we just never hear about, or she was more unhappy than the texts suggest.

Anyway ... you clearly got me thinking! And I will buzz off and hold my thoughts if it's distracting or not useful at this phase of research ... I was just SO psyched to see a 30-Day entry already up! And from you! I was just doing my daily check-in, but you pulled me right in.

Awww ... you're kind. I worry I am sometimes not supportive enough. I have missed too many stories over the years that you've written. I will catch up someday (and that constant assurance feels increasingly like an excuse as time goes by. Meh.) So anyway--not feeling like a failure = awesome! :D Thank you!

I am also supposed to be working on that paper. ;) I shared it with your Google account. I'm just pulling together stuff from the NYTC paper right now and angsting over the 7000-word limit. (JTR was like, "We're digital--fuck it! Make it as long as you want!" I loved that.)

But the reason I commented again ... I seem to recall (from Tolkien's letters? Cindy would know too because most of what I know about Edith I learned from her ...) that Edith felt unhappy at Oxford because she didn't fit in with the other wives? I don't think I'm wholly imagining this. But that strikes me as someone who ends up in a place where it is hard to make friends. Which I can appreciate because I've lived most of my life in a place where it was almost impossible for me to make close "IRL" friends (probably part of the reason this website exists LOL*cry*) because I felt like such a weirdo and people frankly weren't interested in what I wanted to do/talk about. The difference in moving to a place where there are other weirdos like me has been transformative--kind of the opposite of what I expect Edith experienced.

Of course, JRRT was in his element at this point, making friends left and right if the Inklings are any evidence. Which probably made it hard to relate (and probably all the more galling for her, stuck at home, friendless, while he cavorted about with his buddies).

It occurs to me that a fun little numerical/statistical/infographical investigation would be friendships in the Silm. Who has friends identified in the text and who doesn't? My hypothesis would be that the "elevated" characters--the Valar, Luthien--would have few attested friendships.

Interesting musings, Oshun.

One does rather wonder what Edith thought about being Luthien, later on.

I think that all that dancing in the forest would itself develop a lot of physical capacity. And it may be, as some fan writers suggest, that dancing was the means by which she was learning to channel her Maiarin talent, so it may not all have been fun and games.

Oh, so random: I'm so disappointed that Garth identifies the "hemlock" as Anthriscus sylvestris! I always thougt hemlock was a great choice for the Girdle of Melian (and might have actively contributed to its efficacy), since it's seriously poisonous, and if people err through that forest for days and get hungry, they might be tempted to eat it (it smells like mouse piss, but it looks a lot like wild carrots!). Oh well, maybe it was actual hemlock in Doriath and just cow parsley in RL. ^^

Concerning your question to Dawn below, according to the Carpenter biography Edith was in fact somewhat isolated during the Oxford years. IIRC, she felt out of place in the academic environment/ hadn't been brought up to move in that sphere and was too shy to make up for her lack of experience; at any rate, people knew that "Mrs Tolkien never calls back" and so they stopped initiating contact. There must have been acquaintances but by no means a circle of friends as tight-knit as the Inklings. Tolkien seems to have felt guilty about it, which is why after his retirement they moved to Bournemouth which he hated but where Edith felt happy and well-integrated. So he may have been aware of the problem enough to work it into B&L, too. A sense of isolation would be as good an explanation as any for why Lúthien would fall so deeply for some straggly human that crosses her path! And also why she'd tell her plans of trying to rescue Beren to Daeron of all people. On the other hand, she may also simply have been bored or frustrated, and perhaps she really was oblivious to Daeron's feelings. Not every detail in the story has to be autobiographic, I suppose!

I really appreciate your thoughts on the new B&L, btw! I have still not bought it and I'm feeling a bit guilty about it, but the way you describe it, I figure I genuinely don't need it.

Oh dear, this is more a ramble than a review! I apologise. It's cool to have the beginnings of your research here - both to guilt me into action myself (hopefully!) and to see what's going on before you get to the actual writing. Spying on your trade secrets! ;) Oh, and also to get me think some more about the unmentioned stuff in B&L, like Lúthien's social life. ^^

Ohhh, I must have missed this art when you posted it on Tumblr (not surprising, I either miss things or find them a week later when everyone has moved on. :P). I quite like it, especially the one center left image.

Going backwards in both your chapters and the comments, I've always had Lúthien (and the rest of Doriath's named female characters) at least somewhat skilled in some weapon, since the Girdle didn't come up until after Denethor's death. I don't think they were under constant attack, but at the same time, it couldn't have been exactly the same as Valinor - and besides Thingol and Melian, none of the original founders of Doriath would have known what that percieved kind of safety in a settled area was really like.

Related to Himring's much earlier comment, I've seen both Lúthien's dance as a way of expressing her Maiarin talents and dance as a main form of art and expression among the Sindar (this is the one I use, to be clear of my biased tendencies towards it :P) - but I started in fandom reading more Sindar fic than Noldor! There's really not much canon support for either, of course, so it probably is as simple as Tolkien just borrowing from Edith's talents.

You're welcome!

But I always think that in different era or with a different husband she might have continued to pursue a career in music--then, like now, the majority of people who are able to do that within the context of a limited income are a tiny minority in any case.

I think the same! Or at least pursued it as a more serious hobby throughout her adult life like some people do now, which it doesn't seem like she had the real opportunity to. :/ (The idea she could have had it as a serious hobby frustrates me even more than the job, tbh, because obviously Tolkien had his hobbies he spent decades on and that we're still enjoying the results of today.)

I can see why you would assume that all of the Sindar, prior to holing up behind Melian's girdle, had at the very least defensive military skills if not offensive combat skills. That had to have been true for all of the Eldar who made the trek across the mountains to the sea before the exodus to Aman as well.

I just hate the idea that boom! they settle in Doriath and immediately give up on defensive skills - it doesn't seem realistic based on real world people (hell, real world people in perfectly safe places often don't do so). The idea that without a girdle they're all just going to sit there and hope that wild animals or orcs don't attack seems weird.

Everyone is eager to write warrior women now as a reflexive response the gender limitations.

I actually hate writing warrior women or men. :P Mainly because writing battle scenes bores me, but most of my elves have the basic ability to hit something with a sword or arrow long enough to scurry the other direction and get away. That's common sense when half your family has now been killed.