Comments

The Silmarillion Writers' Guild is more than just an archive--we are a community! If you enjoy a fanwork or enjoy a creator's work, please consider letting them know in a comment.

I like this a lot, Dawn. I have the feeling I need to let is rest and read it again later. I had a glimpse of the kind of person that Amarië is and tried to read why she wanted happy, uplifting stories and what that had to do, if anything, with what prevented her from being able to go with him. My conclusions are probably me projecting rather than necessarily what you wanted to tell me. Middle-earth was not going to be that uplifting and she must have understood that. Not that it did not have its moments. (Personally, in my life, I have often been happier living in harsher realities than in more sheltered ones.)

“I mean, it is not uplifting. Rather, it seems to hold us down here, beneath the grass even, at the level of the dirt. It seems … squalid. It seems contrary to our very purpose for being here, in Aman, I mean.”

I notice a lot of new writers who have had little more than "childish" problems are, unlike Amarie, often the ones who want to write the grimmest stories--the horrible, relentless suffering and anguish. I am actually wondering if Amarie is more perceptive and honest to admit she hadn't seen a lot of awful things yet at that point in her life.

I was not sure if you identified more with Amarie or the teacher at certain points. I might have seen her point, but her method left me cold. Ypu cannot lecture someone into feeling what they have not experienced. Better to write a small story well than a big one badly.

The Fall that Tolkien talks about is Original Sin in the Catholic sense, the fall from grace by Adam. In his secondary world it is Arda marred by Morgoth and the fall of the Noldor that comes with the kinslaying, which, of course, is the result of Arda marred. It always felt like there was a little Calvinist predestination seeping in between the cracks. I guess I am supposed to think it comes from those northern pagan epics and their sense of fate and doom--crossing a point at which one can never turn back and make things right.

I'm failing around here a bit because I translate all of these things in my personal atheistic view as being part of the human condition, which means always to be imperfect but with a yearning for perfection. Looking at that and the poignancy of the inevitable disappointment is where I hope to find beauty in artistic expression. It is not to be found in the happy ending but in the process of striving and the will to never give up. Nevermind  me, I get impatient with Tolkien's theology in both worlds. You handled it well in this story.

My conclusions are probably me projecting rather than necessarily what you wanted to tell me.

I don't know that I ever want to tell anyone anything in my stories. A lot of them are me wrangling around with issues in my own head! :) I guess I write them down to invite others to wrangle with me. (You're always good for that, as this comment attests--thank you! :)

I notice a lot of new writers who have had little more than "childish" problems are, unlike Amarie, often the ones who want to write the grimmest stories--the horrible, relentless suffering and anguish.

Yes, um. *raises hand* :D That was me, and still is, except that I'm obviously not a new writer any longer. But I think these young writers' lives in Modern-earth aren't comparable to a young woman growing up in Aman. Even very inexperienced, sheltered young writers nonetheless have an awareness that their reality is not true for most of the world, I think. It's everywhere in the media and even in popular YA fiction. Hello, Hunger Games! :) No more Saddle Club (my favorite book series as a preteen and one that I reread well past the age when I should have outgrown it) and conflicts about which character will win the horse show or similar YA fiction that centers on what actually constitutes everyday conflict for many of the genre's readers. I think Valinor would have been different. The Valar are isolationist in the extreme, as though they are trying to distance themselves as much as possible from the reality of living in Arda Marred; they seem to be constructing an elaborate fantasy world that I imagine Amarie, as a Vanya, would have found herself at the center of. (Our Noldor, with their explorations further out into Aman and their seeming inclination to strife and chaos, seem more worldly in this regard.) She is still young enough to believe in it and to believe that its existence was a worthwhile endeavor. When I was thinking about and writing this story, it made me think of the conflicts (that word again!) in my university years between the writers who felt that every story should explore the Human ConditionTM and those (like Tolkien) who believed that art should allow a degree of escape from the drudgery of living in a hate- and misery-filled world.

I was not sure if you identified more with Amarie or the teacher at certain points.

I don't think I identify fully with either of them. I think Elemmire more than anything wanted to bring Amarie down a peg to two, to show her that she doesn't know everything and to realize that a life in Valmar focused intently on the royal court and the Valar is not a strong basis of experience upon which to create art. She has her read Rumil for this reason. (Totally going with AMC!verse here that Rumil is a sad, broken character.)

I guess I am supposed to think it comes from those northern pagan epics and their sense of fate and doom--crossing a point at which one can never turn back and make things right.

I would probably go with wyrd before Calvinism, simply because that fate/predestination seems to arise from the nature of the world itself rather than a decision made by a supernatural being to save some and forsake others. It does tangle with Tolkien's Catholic Christianity in problematic ways (speaking as someone with no Catholic experience here, so smite me if I'm wrong ;) since sin and indeed the Fall itself is predicated on free will. So how does that relate to the inevitability of, say, the Noldorin exile in Beleriand? I had to read Boethius last semester for my medieval class and found myself wondering to what extent Tolkien was influenced by him and his ideas about how fate and free will coexist, that the gods/God/Iluvatar simply see the results of human free will before they transpire. But to proclaim those results, as Namo does on occasion? Doesn't that change the game at least a little?

I'm veering way off-topic here. I'll veer back by saying that I had in my mind that Elemmire viewed the world much as I do (so here are my agnostic, nature-centric views coming through ;) in that death and suffering are the way of the world but not the only way and that death is needed to give forth life, making those topics that can and should be included in fiction/poetry intended to be uplifting (versus Amarie's blue skies and fuzzy bunnies and rainbows).

Thank you for the thought-provoking (as ever!) comment.

This was very fun to read. I like your Amarie. Is this the same one as in your in Carnistir story? Thanks for not following “Laws and Customs of the Eldar”; I find it very implausible, especially if elves and humans were supposedly very similar. The implied class system was interesting, not as extreme as Darth Fingon’s, but plausible nonetheless. I like this story even more than I might have because you included a class system.

 

“You are making progress. But these are a child’s concerns. The poems and the tales that persist across a thousand year’s memory are those with the conflicts that matter.”

Regarding this quote, it seems to reflect what is called “literary” sensibilities. Only sad things are serious and have any literary merit. Elemmire and Amarie, in the pre-Darkening years, seem to each reflect the debate about the value of works that are not considered “literary” and what is “literary” in the first place.

I find Amarie’s views, despite her own naïveté, rather attractive because they dwell on what is right in the world. Focusing on the pain and sorrow in the world seems to lead a lot of people in our world to not just “woe is me”-feelings, but inaction too. This inundating society, by the media, on the sad things in life seems to have had the effect of people becoming neutralized to it, essentially the opposite of what was desired.

Thanks for writing. I would love to see more of your Amarie (and Finrod?) one day again. Glad to see interaction between two women who aren’t in some way rivals for someone else.

By the way, is the change to “Finrod” in the second section of the story deliberate? Wouldn’t Amarie still consider him as Findarato (or Artafinde)? Just curious as to the change. 

Thanks for reading and commenting, Alquawende! I'm glad you liked the story. :)

I think the only of my Caranthir stories with Amarie also is "When the Stars Smile," so they're definitely not the same character, as "When the Stars Smile" is a comedy set outside my usual verse and this is ... well, not a comedy for sure, as you know. :) This story is actually more in line with one of my oldest pieces, Return to Me, about the reembodiment of Finrod told through Finarfin's PoV; at the time, I wanted Amarie and Earwen to have chapters as well, but I never wrote them. This kind of just came to me, based on the B2MeM prompt, almost eight years after writing "Return to Me."

On the debate as to what constitutes "serious" artistic work, I tend to write dark stuff myself, and I tend to prefer things that at least explore the complexity of the world. At the same time, I "get" Tolkien's own ideas about the value of literature and art as a means of escape, and there are certain writers whose work inspires me simply because it is so uplifting. It's kind of funny because, after I posted this, I got a number of, "So whose side are you on?" regarding Elemmire and Amarie, but I didn't think of it that way when I was writing it; I didn't think of one perspective as having value and the other not.

Good observation on the name change! That doesn't make sense and is something I should fix. This was a mistake on my part, so thanks for catching it!

Thank you again for your kind comment! :)

Thank you, Myaru! That was/is one of my goals, to make female characters who are just names more than that. :) I, too, remember when displeasing one reader--especially a reader I respected as a writer in her own right--felt like the end of the world and when it was so scary to share a piece of writing. (While posting my novel AMC back in 2005, I used to get sick to my stomach on posting days!)

I wanted to leave a review on this far earlier, but I couldn't, and still can't, really articulate my thoughts into coherent words. The theme of Amarië's growth as an artist really struck a chord with me, and even though the ending was very different from what I'd have expected, it seems that she understood, if not transcended Elemmírë's lesson.

Wonderful work as always, Dawn, and it was a joy to see you write something new!

Thank you, Elleth, for both reading and commenting. I don't know that I've been there as an artist, in Amarie's situation--for me, it was more understanding, accepting, and embracing why I want to write the kinds of fiction I want to write--but I definitely remember being the young "OMG someone didn't like my story the sky is falling!!!1!" writer that she once was. :)

I have at least one other story in mind for B2MeM, but grad school is kicking my arse right now! D^: Two papers due this weekend, then maybe I can spare a moment to get the story from my brain and onto paper.